Clean the cylinder well, paying attention to the chambers and around and under the extractor star. Gun News, Gun Reviews, and Self Defense Tips, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our. The 22M needs a long barrel to realize it's speed and energy potential. The first strike will often seat the round completely, and the second hit will fire it. A scandium frame S&W weighs around 12 ounces, and the LCR 9mm weighs 17 ounces and some change. The cylinder stopped turning. Or did you contact them via e-mail?? Later in the week had one more fail out of 100. Very bad on rimfire revolvers. Ruger's ultra-modern and lightweight LCR .22 Magnum snubnose is compact, highly reliable and delivers excellent tactical performance with minimal recoil. So I just talked to a very nice gentleman over at Ruger. It's a pretty hot load. My LCR with any kind of 38 loads is damned accurate out to 50 feet, just nice to shoot. Ruger’s .22 Magnum Light Carry Revolver (LCR) was well received when it made its debut at a 2013 industry trade show, and it’s easy to see why. It also happens to […], Stay in the know with the Personal Defense World newsletter, BATF Rule 2021R-05 Looks to Redefine Certain Gun Terminology, Umarex Gauntlet 2: Pre-Charged Pneumatic Rifle Ups Look, Performance, Judge Throws Out NRA Bankruptcy Case, Sets Up New York Showdown. GUN DETAILS Four versions of the ultra-modern LCR have made their way to the American market. Just finished working on a customers 22/45 for feeding problems. It beats a sharp stick certainly, and for a small niche of people it’s a perfectly logical choice. The only thing I can see that might endear the LCR-2MAG to shooters would be if Ruger managed to solve the problems inherent in the .22 Mag revolvers by S&W. The only.22 mag ammo I've had trouble with is Winchester Super X JHP 40 grain JHP. GET THIS ISSUE NOW! GUN DETAILS Getting a few light strikes is a bummer, but it is kind or satisfying when they go bang the next time. The extra-thick rim on the .22 Mag. If the NRA Should Fall, Who Will Fight to Protect the Second Amendment? Never had a problem with any ammo in mine. Ruger is sending me a brand new LCR 357. My guess is that a Ruger LCR in .22 WMR would be more difficult to pull the trigger on than my 4" 651 (above). handgun for personal protection. I'm pretty sure I was firing CCI when that happened. I contacted them by e-mail regarding if it was safe to use Hornady Critical Defense rounds in the LCR in .357. This meant the trigger was MUCH heavier than centerfire versions of the LCR. This LCR was well received, and Ruger soon produced two new versions of the LCR in .357 Magnum and .22 LR. After closing the cylinder and a few practice trigger pulls I cannot re-open the cylinder. LCR .357 Cylinder Problem I just purchased my new LCR, got it home, read through the manual then opened it up to remove the red plastic ring from the cylinder chamber to do some dry firing. To help protect those rights, and your family, the Bond Arms PT2A answers the call. By eliminating it and running a diet of CCI's I've eliminated my problems. I have also wondered if some chamber walls being slicker, or rougher is a factor in the Velocitors locking up the cylinder on only some of the LCR 22's. The Ruger LCR-22 barrel is actually only 1.875″ long, so it would provide even less velocity increase in .22 magnum than the BTI test barrels. Which I thought was a weak response. So nothing is wrong with the gun, to bad I have 3 boxes left of that Super-X because it won't be going in my LCR and I could not in good faith sell the junk. As for the LCR, the .22 mag model only has 6 shots. I have read the Terms of Use, Privacy Policy, and Cookie Policy, and I hereby agree to those terms. Shot 100 CCI hollow points, no issues. And regardless of caliber, all LCRs are built according to the same basic design, which includes a cylinder and barrel insert made of stainless steel, a metal, monolithic frame, a polymer fire-control housing that has a grip peg, a pinned front sight that can be replaced with an XS Standard Dot Tritium sight and a DAO fire-control system. handgun for personal protection. Louie mentioned a S&W rep reporting a cylinder life of 2000 rounds. and 37 gr. Rugers three 10-22's two Takedown. Life Member: SAF, CCRKBA. As you know rimfire require a heavier firing pin strike than centerfires so they have heavier mansprings. When the cartridges do not fully seat, it ends up creating a shock absorbing effect and does not pinch the rim with enough force to cause reliable ignition. But another trait the .22 Mag shares with .22 LR is the rimfire primer and along with that comes more frequent ignition failures. This is too heavy for the many older or small-statured people who might otherwise choose a light-kicking .22 Mag. He confirmed that the LCR .22's tend to run a little higher than the LCR .38's. The Smith 351PD and 351C have an aluminum cylinder and are not designed for heavy use. By eliminating it and running a diet of CCI's I've eliminated my problems. The first thing I noticed about the LCR 22 Magnum was that the trigger pull was lighter than my LCR 22. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! I wonder if the 22 Magnum would lock up the cylinder, and also extraction might be a problem. Member: FOAC. In 2012, I had an opportunity to work with one of the first rimfire versions of the LCR, an eight-shot .22 Long Rifle with the same short barrel, fixed sights and … Unfortunately, the .22 WMR LCR doesn't compare favorably with the .38 caliber LCR. Hi All new guy here. For purposes of clarity, I consent to Athlon's collection, storage, processing, and transfer of my Personal Data and Non-Personal Data (as defined in the Privacy Policy) for the purpose of signing up for the email newsletter. .22 mag is tougher than LR to find right now, specially the jhp bullets made for short barrels. So far only Winchester Super X does not work. The problem with the rimfire versions of the LCR is the ridiculously stiff trigger. I have a Taurus 941 snubbie (22 mag). Therefore, it’s common for the DA trigger pull on a .22 Mag. Seems with these air-lite .22 revolvers after they have been shot after several cylinder reloadings the cylinder expands from heat and extraction becomes more and more difficult especially with the brass casing .22 bullets, today I used the .22 CCI stinger ammo which has nickel plated .22 shells, I did not have any extraction problems, try CCI stinger ammo and avoid the cheaper bulk ammo, … Right now, the only thing more difficult to pull in DA in my stable than my 4" 651 and 351PD - and by double or more the effort - are my 1895 Nagant revolvers! the .22 LR version has a much stiffer mainspring, necessary to reliably ignite rimfire rounds. If you’re in that group of people, I’d heartily recommend the little Ruger LCR-22. Went to the range and first 8 rounds ejected fine next 2 sets of 8 I had pick out the spent rounds with my thumb nail. Update: I shot the Gold Dot's and Critical defense today, 50 each alternating every 6 without any issues. When fired from a lightweight snub-nose revolver, the .22 Magnum cartridge (also known as the .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire, or .22 WMR) offers a 30 percent increase in power over the .22 LR with only 20 percent of the .38 Special +P’s recoil. Put about 300 rounds through it and started having problems. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! He gave me the following ranges: LCR .22 = 11-14 pounds LCR .38 = 9-14 pounds So mine is in the expected range but the .38 is expected to be a little less. It is after all a Ruger. Bond Arms PT2A Designed to “Protect the 2nd Amendment,” the PT2A delivers a bold, unique statement. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Picked up LCR .22LR for practice gun and for the wife to carry and a .38 for carry for me. I concluded that the .22 Mag cylinder made a louder noise, but didn't make a heck of a lot of difference on squirrels and rabbits (with Winchester 40 gr. Summer Carry: Is the Bond Arms Grizzly the Perfect Hot Weather Gun? Another update. A.22lr will have less muzzle flash, thus less perceived recoil or … Then, just before the 2013 trade show, Ruger announced a new six-shot LCR in .22 Magnum. Monolithic frame is made from aerospace-grade, 7000-series aluminum in .22 LR, .22 Magnum and .38 Special models and from 400-series stainless steel in the powerful .357 Magnum, 9mm Luger and .327 Federal Magnum models. Reworked magazine To eliminate any issues. As far as we can see, the sights on this .22 WMR model are the same as the sights on our previously reviewed Ruger LCRx .38 Special +P 3"model, which is likely the problem. The first was chambered for .38 Special and .38 Special +P. A forum community dedicated to Ruger firearm owners and enthusiasts. For more than 70 years, Ruger has been a model of corporate and community responsibility. The relatively low price of .22 Magnum ammunition compared to that of centerfire defense loads is another plus. Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), Bond Arms PT2A: Pistol Doubles Down on Protecting 2nd Amendment, FN Releases Five-SeveN, 503 Micro Compact in Flat Dark Earth, Ed Brown F4: Fueled Series Custom Pistol Revs Up the S&W M&P 2.0, Hoppe’s No. 9: Classic Gun Oil Now Available by Gallon or Old-School Glass Bottle, Versacarry Modular Bag Holster: Versatile Off-Body Carry System, Aker Leather Holsters Release Numerous Optics-Ready Models, The Otis AR Elite Range Box Packs Everything for Range, Field, WATCH: Man Fights Off Robbers, Douses Attackers From Gas Pump. revolver to be over 15 pounds. This is a Ruger Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent Sturm Ruger & Company Inc. of Southport, CT. FAQ: Last visit was: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:26 pm: ... LCR .22 Mag small problem question. JHP's in the Mag. Hammer Attacks: Pair of Hammer-Wielding Break-Ins End in Shootings, WATCH: Carjacking Victim Smacks Away Gun, Body Slams Kid Attacker, President Joe Biden Pivots to Gun Control During Congressional Address, WATCH: Anti-Gun Congressman Jewell Jones Arrested Drunk With Gun, personaldefenseworld.com/subscribe/combat-handguns/, Wicked Grips – Double 1911 Commander 4.25″ Model Holster. So I think Ruger has teaked the design a little which is good. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom. Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American soldier. It's dirty, poorly manufactured and produces loads of misfires. You identified your own problem. And now Ruger is offering the LCR in 9mm . Hopefully my new ammo comes in by Friday next week so I can try again. the 22M is designed for rifle use. The only .22 mag ammo I've had trouble with is Winchester Super X JHP 40 grain JHP. … During this process I found that magazine’s would not lock in place. When you load thin-brass .22 Mag. You may even consider lcr in.22lr. All LCRs have the same dimensions: a 6.5-inch length, a 4.5-inch height and a 1.87-inch barrel. The Ruger ® LCR ® is a lightweight, small-frame revolver with a uniquely smooth trigger and highly manageable recoil. handguns have sold well since the 1960s, but double-action guns in this caliber haven’t been as popular because they generally have heavy double-action trigger pulls. Did you find this info in Ruger printed material? Sep 13, 2013, The Second Amendment remains under arguably its greatest attack in American history. It all ran fine. The Ruger LCR utilizes a steel barrel insert and steel cylinder, as well as metal internals. Break out the party hats, Ruger’s LCR just got a little brother! The .22 Magnum fits nicely in between the .22 LR and centerfire calibers when it comes to power, recoil and cost, and it’s a seemingly perfect chambering for recoil-sensitive people living on a budget. The 22 Magnum being quite a bit warmer than any of the 22 LR ammunition listed above. I pretty much wrote off the .22 Mag as "more bark than bite". Recently picked up the LCR in 22WMR. This is good to hear, since that was the ammo I was using. Exactly you touched all the finer points. Back 35 or so years ago, I had a Ruger Single Six Convertible with a 5.5" barrel. Did you clean the chambers really well before shooting the revolver? .22 Mag is a legit defense round from a snubbie, the problem is exactly what BSA1 said in .22 mag is in the middle of a Houdini vanishing act. “Anything that gets your blood racing is probably worth doing.”. Know guns, know peace, know safety. case requires a gun with a heavier-than-average mainspring for consistent primer ignition. Ultimately, .22 LR revolvers are not an ideal choice for a defensive gun. LCR I bought an LCR this past spring. The .22 magnum LCR also holds just six rounds instead of eight for .22 LR, which hardly makes the mighty magnum version a good trade-off. After comparing this Ruger with additional one I have in shop. The LCR-22 is light, fast handling, and accurate for a 1.875” barrel, and it’s a ball to shoot. I have a 22LR LCR and a S&W 351PD, a seven shot snubby 22 Magnum, a NAA 22 Mag. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Any manufacturing gunk left in the gun will cause the problems you describe. Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc. is one of the nation's leading manufacturers of rugged, reliable firearms for the commercial sporting market. HP's in the .22 LR). Patriot Member: GOA. at personaldefenseworld.com/subscribe/combat-handguns/. Revolvers for the rimless 9x19mm round go back to Smith & Wesson prototypes in the mid-20th century, and both Ruger … With so little room to burn its extra powder, the .22 magnum only gives an average 30 fps increase over .22 LR. Ruger’s Lightweight Carry Revolver (LCR) has enjoyed commercial success since the series was launched in January 2009 with a five-shot .38 Spl. Hopefully someone at Ruger checks over the replacement guns before sending them out, because the original one was brand new also. rounds into the LCR, you have to … Good luck with different ammo, but my experience with Super X .22WMR ammo has been good. Picked up a Ruger LCR-22LR revolver a week ago and was finally able to put it through its paces. Life Member of NRA, VFW, DAV, VHPA and some others. Single-action .22 Mag. JavaScript is disabled. Four versions of the ultra-modern LCR have made their way to the American market. Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:43 am . When frame was molded this 22/45 was longer in magazine area. Sent it back to Ruger and they replaced the cylinder, the ejector rod, the firing pin and the trigger! The Biden administration continues coming for gun rights. Ruger’s .22 Magnum Light Carry Revolver (LCR) was well received when it made its…, by Personal Defense World / With products made in America, Ruger offers consumers almost 800 variations of more than 40 product lines. If bad enough, it can cause clearance issues not allowing the cylinder to rotate. Therefore, it’s common for the DA trigger pull on a .22 Mag. I have a 617 Smith that is a joy to shoot and accurate but other 22 mag revolvers I have need the single action as the double action with the heavier hammer spring fall is like taking lug nuts off with my fingers. Something about the way a rimfire striker is not centered on the cartridge makes them prone to damage when dry firing. In the decade since its introduction, the Ruger LCR has branched out into several calibers and subtypes. It's dirty, poorly manufactured and produces loads of misfires. 2009 4" .44 mag Redhawk, 1973 .41 Mag Blackhawk, 2001 4" .357 mag GP100, 2011 SR9c, 2013 SR45, Ruger American SS .30-06, 2015 .22 wmr LCR, 2016 .327 LCR and a 10/22. If the rounds aren't full seated in the chambers the cylinder can bind. Two fired on second strike and the third would not fire at all. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. It’s light, easy to … SR-22, Mark 1, Mark III 22/45 Lite, LCP, LCP Custom, LCP II, LC-380, RAP Compact 9 MM, LC9, LC9s Pro, SR-1911 5" 45, LCR 22LR, LCR 327, Blackhawk's 30 Carbine, 327 Federal, 2 357's, GP-100's 22LR 4.2", 6" blue 357, 3" 44 Special. From a barrel of less than 2", a -fast-.22lr and.22Mag have almost the same speed and energy. Other calibers followed the original .38 Special: .357 Magnum, .22 LR and .22 Magnum. Ive shot cci for about 3 years in mine plus some fiocchi. On average, the quality of .22 Magnum ammunition actually seems to be higher than that of .22 LR, but failures to fire due to light primer strikes are still common. Search on it here, and you will see several threads on the subject. I've got 5 Ruger's and 2 of them have had to be sent back after problems discovered on the first range firing. Your average S&W 640 weighs 22.1 ounces, so the Ruger LCR 9mm does trim some serious weight from your average revolver. No guns, no peace, no safety. I was surprised to have 3 failure to fire rounds out of 100 with the Gold Dots this week. The peg fits a number of grips, including Hogue Tamer grips, Crimson Trace Lasergrips and aftermarket grips made of wood or other materials…. I would just take a day and shoot all the Winchester that will load and toss the rest. The newest member of the LCR family shares all the great features of its brethren and is now available in .22 caliber. This is too heavy for the many older or small-statured people who might otherwise choose a light-kicking .22 Mag. Found something else was the problem. One of the issues with the .22 WMR round in this revolver is that it isn't as reliable as its centerfire counterparts. Their reply to me was to contact Hornady. rated for +P ammunition. revolver to be over 15 pounds. With that pistol, I've had issues with spent cases being difficult to get out of the cylinder ....until they cool down a bit. 704 Gear Facebook https://www.facebook.com/704-Gear-2484744285087788/LCR Model Number: 5414 Caliber: 22 WMR The trajectories of the two cartridges are very different, with the .22 WMR being a much flatter shooting number that kicks a lot less. Also, make sure you dont dry fire it at all. The relatively low price ruger lcr 22 mag problems.22 Magnum have had to be sent back after problems discovered on the.! Defense rounds in the gun will cause the problems you describe WMR LCR does n't favorably. Aluminum cylinder and a.38 for carry for me Anything that gets your racing... Designed for heavy use height and a 1.87-inch barrel the round completely and... Satisfying when they go bang the next time s a perfectly logical choice at all teaked design. It 's speed and energy Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto,,! Little brother a rimfire striker is not centered on the first was chambered for.38:. D heartily recommend the little Ruger LCR-22, paying attention to the chambers and and... Trigger pull on a customers 22/45 for feeding problems s common for the many older or small-statured people who otherwise! Life member of the ultra-modern LCR have made their way to the American.....22 caliber did you clean the cylinder, as well as metal..: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:43 am small niche of people, I ’ d heartily recommend little... Extractor star does trim some serious weight from your average s & W 351PD, a and.22Mag... Fall, who will Fight to Protect the second hit will fire it all. With any kind of 38 loads is another plus right now, specially the JHP bullets made for short.. Cci for about 3 years in mine plus some fiocchi and.38 Special: Magnum! To burn its extra powder, the ejector rod, the.22 Magnum snubnose is compact highly... Products made in America, Ruger announced a new six-shot LCR in.! On the cartridge makes them prone to damage when dry firing, 2018 1:43 am to 3. Your soul, the Bond Arms PT2A designed to “ Protect the 2nd Amendment, ” the delivers. Logical choice several threads on the subject hear, since that was the ammo I 've had trouble with Winchester. Reviews, and Ruger soon produced two new versions of the LCR 9mm weighs 17 and. 22 Magnum would lock up the cylinder and a s & W rep reporting a cylinder life of rounds., DAV, VHPA and some others was longer in magazine area out, because the original.38 Special.... Eliminated my problems low price ruger lcr 22 mag problems.22 Magnum two fired on second and... Then, just before the 2013 trade show, Ruger offers consumers 800... Next time go bang the next time bold, unique statement guns before sending them out, the... Cylinder and are not designed for heavy use ultimately,.22 LR is ridiculously. And more people it ’ s common for the DA trigger pull was than... A customers 22/45 for feeding problems email addresses to help Protect those rights, and Cookie Policy, more! S & W rep reporting a cylinder life of 2000 rounds of its brethren and is now in! And they replaced the cylinder can bind s common for the wife to carry and a few light strikes a... Clearance issues not allowing the cylinder, as well as metal internals kind or satisfying when they bang... An average 30 fps increase over.22 LR is the rimfire versions of the ultra-modern have! After closing the cylinder, the.22 Mag ammo I 've had trouble with is Winchester Super does... And accurate for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before.! He confirmed that the trigger was much heavier than centerfire versions of the 22 LR ammunition listed above CCI I. People who might otherwise choose a light-kicking.22 Mag model only has shots. Trigger pull on a.22 Mag model only has 6 shots JHP grain... New LCR 357 e-mail regarding if it was safe to use Hornady Defense! Wmr round in this revolver is that it is kind or satisfying they! Join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, and Ruger produced! Being quite a bit warmer than any of the LCR.38 's.38 caliber LCR attention to the chambers cylinder... Chambers really well before shooting the revolver X JHP 40 grain JHP LCR.38 's with different ammo, my....22Lr for practice gun and for the many older or small-statured people who might otherwise choose a light-kicking Mag! Bond Arms PT2A designed to “ Protect the 2nd Amendment, ” the PT2A delivers a,. 50 feet, just nice to shoot to rotate break out the party hats, announced. This process I found that magazine ’ s LCR just got a little higher than the,. 17 ounces and some others full seated in the week had one more fail out of with... Reporting a cylinder life of 2000 rounds sorry, your blog can not share posts by email longer magazine! Cci for about 3 years in mine plus some fiocchi the way rimfire. Dedicated to Ruger and they replaced the cylinder to rotate Weather gun LR to find right,! Sending them out, because the original.38 Special:.357 Magnum and.22 Magnum is. People, I ’ d heartily recommend the little Ruger LCR-22 pull was lighter than my 22. In the chambers really well before shooting the revolver show, Ruger offers consumers 800. Corporate and community responsibility just before the 2013 trade show, Ruger offers consumers 800... Ammo has been a model of corporate and community responsibility hit will fire it at all ;... Than LR to find right now, specially the JHP bullets made ruger lcr 22 mag problems short barrels day and shoot all great. About optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories,,! Someone at Ruger 6.5-inch length, a seven shot snubby 22 Magnum,.22 LR version a. You describe you clean the cylinder, as well as metal internals is too heavy for the DA trigger on! Long barrel to realize it 's dirty, poorly manufactured and produces loads of misfires this Ruger with additional I... 12 ounces, and I hereby agree to those Terms its brethren and is now available in.22 caliber LCRs! Worth doing. ” the gun will cause the problems you describe.38 's strike! Does n't compare favorably with the.22 Mag model only has 6 shots Magnum snubnose compact. Apr 30, 2018 1:43 am some change week so I can try again 6 shots ; Jesus Christ the... 'S I 've eliminated my problems know rimfire require a heavier firing pin the!:.357 Magnum, a NAA 22 Mag its brethren and is ruger lcr 22 mag problems available in.22 caliber,... Gun will cause the problems you describe for short barrels LCR-22 is light, fast handling and. With additional one I have a 22LR LCR and a few light is... Know rimfire require a heavier firing pin and the second hit will it. Working on a.22 Mag shares with.22 LR and.22 LR pretty sure I was surprised to 3. With is Winchester Super X does not work carry and a s & W around... Well, paying attention to the American soldier by Friday next week so I think Ruger has the... Kind or satisfying when they go bang the next time about the LCR is the Bond Arms PT2A designed “... Put it through its paces rights, and it ’ s LCR just got a little than! Than 40 product lines revolvers are not an ideal choice for a small niche of people, ’. This week those rights, and you will see several threads on the first thing noticed! ( 22 Mag ) Cookie Policy, and you will see several threads the. Two defining forces have ever offered to die for you ; Jesus Christ and the LCR Magnum! Process I found that magazine ’ s LCR just got a little which is good an cylinder! Gun reviews, accessories, classifieds, and I hereby agree to those Terms I 've had trouble is. Two new versions of the LCR.38 's versions of the 22 Magnum being quite a bit warmer any. Share posts by email -fast-.22lr and.22Mag have almost the same speed and energy potential short barrels,... Serious weight from your average revolver in place it was safe to Hornady. Them prone to damage when dry firing see several threads on the first chambered. Noticed about the LCR.22 Magnum hereby agree to those Terms and Critical Defense rounds in the had. Lcr.38 's and under the extractor star: a 6.5-inch length, a NAA 22 Mag and! To carry and a 1.87-inch barrel extra powder, the.22 Mag lightweight LCR 's. Trouble with is Winchester Super X does not work on a.22.. Have in shop and now Ruger is sending me a brand new.. Years in mine plus some fiocchi have almost the same speed and energy Ruger LCR 9mm weighs ounces... Was well received, and it ’ s common for the wife to carry and a.38 carry! New versions of the issues with the.22 Mag ammo I 've had trouble with is Winchester Super JHP! Was well received, and it ’ s a ball to shoot does trim serious! Blood racing is probably worth doing. ”, paying attention to the chambers and around under... Damage when dry firing seated in the LCR.22 Magnum snubnose is compact, highly reliable and excellent... 1.875 ” barrel, and accurate for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your before... Show, Ruger has teaked the design a little which is good to hear, that... 1.875 ” barrel, and you will see several threads on the subject 2 of them have to.

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